Question and Answers About Stalls for Pilots

1. Fear is Keeping Me From Flying
2. I'm Scared of Departure Stall
3. Stalls Appear Horrifying to Me
4. How Do I Raise a Dropping Wing in a Stall?
5. How Do I Teach Aileron Use During Stall Recovery?
6. I'm Using Excessive Aileron During Stall Recovery
7. Help Me Get Through Power-on Stalls
8. My CFI's Strange and Scary Stall Practice

Dear Mr. Machado,
I have read many of your articles on the Internet and in Flight Training magazine. I have noticed your references to fear and flying and enjoyed your article on finding reasons not to fly. Well, I hate to say it, but after 80 hours of student flying I find myself looking for reasons not to fly. I soloed after 45 hours, which was one of the most courageous things I have done in my 40 years on this earth. It was a moment I will cherish for my remaining years.

Shortly after that I went too far from the airport. Upon turning around I realized that there was nothing but 23 miles of air between the runway and me. After a few moments of terror, I made an uneventful return to the nest. The next flight out I had trouble with the electrical system and lost the radio. I followed standard procedures for landing at my towered field. I didn't start shaking until I shut the plane down. My instructor advises me to just keep flying and it will get easier.

I wonder if you have any advice to help me get past this wall. I would greatly appreciate any help you can give.
Thank you,
Max Fear

Greetings Max:
Your question and others like it are the most frequent questions I receive at Flight Training. So here are a few additional thoughts to add to those that I’ve already provided on aviation fear.

There are basically three ways to deal with aviation fear. You can deal with it logically, by trying to understand why your fear may be irrational. You can deal with it emotionally, by trying to understand how your attitudes, expectations and values generate and support your fear. You can even deal with it behaviorally, by conditioning yourself to be less fearful. I’ve discussed all these methods and their combinations in previous writings. I haven’t discussed a fourth way to attack your fear and that is to attack your fear.

Let’s suppose you are fortunate enough to train with a very wise flight instructor. He or she would most likely try the methods mentioned above to help you overcome your fear. If these methods fail to produce positive results, I have a good idea what this wise person would do next. He will probably sit you down, look you straight in the eye and ask, in a rather stern (but compassionate) voice, “Max, just what the heck are you so afraid of? Why do you seem unable to thrive on all of the challenges flying offers? Why are you so frightened when there’s no obvious reason to be scared?”

It doesn’t matter how you respond because these questions are more rhetorical than fact finding. You see, the instructor’s objective is to kindle within you a fire of anger at your apparent willingness to be a slave to your own fear. I say willingness because, at this stage, it’s more likely that you aren’t doing enough on your own to solve your fear problem. That’s why your instructor wants you to become angry—angry enough to fight that fear. He’s attempting to provoke your natural instinct to fight what oppresses you—your fear. And there’s nothing like oppression (self-imposed oppression in this instance) to foment a fighting response.

This is very similar to dealing with the school bully. Some would have you talk to the bully, flatter the bully, or even alter your life to avoid the bully. Either way, you lose and the bully wins. But in most instances, if the bully hits you and you hit him back, then you win, even if you lose the fight. At the precise moment you stand up and fight, you diminish that which frightens you.

Max, if other means of handling your fear haven’t worked, then you need to fight. You need to stand up for yourself and fight your fear as many, many others have done in the past. In the same way that people overcome their fear of public speaking by speaking in public, you need to get in the airplane and confront that which scares you. You will, of course, do it smartly and with common sense.

If you’re scared of spins, you’ll fly with a CFI who you respect and spin until your head spins. If you have to (and can afford to), you’ll spend 10, 15 or even 20 hours practicing spins if necessary. The same applies to stalls, turbulence, and anything else that you might fear. If you’re fearful of heights, you’ll take skydiving lessons. If you’re fearful about flying more than 23 miles from the airport, then force yourself to fly 23.5 miles from the airport today. Tomorrow fly 24 miles. The next day do 25. Yes, this may be scary, but so what? You were scared when you went too far from the airport, but you weren’t hurt, right? You were scared when your radio failed, but you weren’t hurt, right? As long as you confront your fear in a safe and responsible manner, you won’t get hurt. If flying is important to you and traditional means of handling your problem fail to work, then confront the thing that scares you head on. Let your anger (at what fear does to you) be your sword. Let it motivate you to stand up and fight for yourself. Then, grab your fear by the ears, wrestle it to the ground and thump it a few times until you’re no longer scared of it.

I have seen this method work many times in airplanes, the karate school and on the speaking platform. It might just work for you.

If this approach fails to produce satisfactory results, then you have an important decision to make. You need to decide if you can live with your present ratio of aviation pleasure to aviation discomfort. If not, then have the courage to admit that being a pilot isn’t for you. At least you’ll have the satisfaction of knowing that you tried to overcome your fear. There’s no shame in trying and failing. You only dishonor yourself if you fail to try.

Dear Mr. Machado:
Every time my instructor and I do departure stalls, I’m scared to death. The airplane always seems to want to enter a spin after I stall. My instructor has to take over at this point. I find this spinning tendency very uncomfortable. How can I get over these feelings?
Sincerely,
Ted

Greetings Ted:
If you want to overcome these feelings about spins, I recommend you take spin training from a qualified instructor in an appropriate airplane. Regarding how to prevent the airplane from spinning, consider this. As you approach the stall, feed in a little right rudder to compensate for the airplane’s increasing left turning tendency. Apply enough rudder to keep the ball centered in the inclinometer. Assuming the airplane’s not severely out of rig, stalling with a centered ball should result in both wings stalling at the same time. This means you’ll stall straight ahead (or, along a path perpendicular to the airplane’s lateral axis) instead of having one wing stall before the other. An airplane in coordinated flight almost always stalls in this type of predictable manner. This is what pilots are referring to when they say, “Misusing the rudder in a departure stall could cause a wing to drop off.” Of course, they don’t mean that an airfoil is ejected into space when the pedal is touched. They mean that the airplane is likely to spin if the rudder is used incorrectly.

Hello Mr. Machado:
I have a question for you. I am into my second flight lesson, which is stalls. The way my instructor explained it to me seems horrifying. First the nose pitches waaaaay up, then stall horn activates, then the nose drops waaaaay down. I do not like the way this sounds. Do you have any advice about how I can expect to feel when I get into a stall? My instructor says it is just like on a rollercoaster when it is about to drop. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Norm

Greetings Norm:
Wow, stalls on your second lesson? No continuing or advanced practice of climbs, turns, descents? No slow flight practice yet? You must be on the accelerated program. I hope this isn’t a crash course.

From your description, it sounds like your instructor will also have you throw your hands up over your head and scream as go “rollercoaster-like” over the stall hump. Unfortunately, the situation you describe is one of the main reasons we have trouble keeping people in aviation. In my opinion, we'd never have to worry about increasing student starts in aviation if we could just keep the students we have without scaring some of them off. As flight instructors, we’d be better off if we were just a little more cautious about the words we choose to use during flight training.

First, the airplane's nose doesn't go waaaaay up when entering a stall unless the pilot pulls the controls waaaaay back with waaaaay too much force. Even then, an airplane can stall at any attitude and any airspeed, which means the airplane can stall when the nose is pointed straight down, too. Furthermore, the nose doesn't necessarily drop waaaaay down when the airplane stalls. Geesh, I know combat pilots who’d get scared by listening to stall talk like this.

A more sensitive flight instructor (no, I don’t mean one who cries at weddings, either) might choose to talk his or her students though their first stall in such a way that these students barely realized they stalled in the first place. For instance, this might be done from level flight by reducing the power and gently applying elevator back pressure sufficient to keep the nose just barely above the horizon. As the airplane approaches its critical angle of attack, a stall is surely imminent. At the first sign of wing buffet, however, elevator back pressure is released and the nose gently lowered to just a few inches below the horizon. Power is also applied to accelerate stall recovery. This is an excellent way to introduce anyone to a stall.

It’s also an introduction that can be done from a power-off descent. In this case, the airplane's nose is held a bit above the normal glide angle until it stalls. Then the nose is lowered a bit below the normal glide angle to reduce the angle of attack below critical. Imagine that, a stall recovery without power. If you didn’t know better you’d think glider pilots do the same thing. Neither of these two introductory stall methods should scare anyone. Once a student is introduced to a stall this way, he or she is less likely to become frightened when practicing more advanced versions of stalls and recoveries.

So, have a chat with your flight instructor and request that you be introduced to stalls by the method described above. It will go a long waaaaay in making the process of learning more fun.

Hi Rod:
While practicing stall recoveries in a C150, my instructor (as well as several aviation books) cautioned me against trying to pick up a dropping wing with the use of the ailerons, to avoid stalling even further on the lowered aileron side. Only use rudder input. Don't flirt with spin country. That's fine with me. Why then, in the C150 POH, do they state otherwise? In the stall section it reads: In case of roll, use ailerons to return wing level, then neutralize aileron control. No mention of rudder. Who's right?
Sincerely,
Arthur

Greetings Arthur:
First, thanks for using the term dropping instead of dropping off. When instructors tell their students not to use ailerons to pick up a wing that is dropping off, this causes some students to wonder why they're not flying airplanes with stronger wing bolts (and we wonder why stalls make some people nervous). Your instructor is right in terms of not using an aileron to pick up a dropping (stalled) wing. As you know, a lowered aileron increases the angle of attack on that wing. Attempting to lift an already stalled (or nearly stalled) wing will surely exacerbate the stall.

I believe the answer to your question lies in the section of the POH from which you're quoting. Although I'm not sure which make and model your POH refers to, most POHs have separate sections for stall and spin recoveries. Since you're reading from the stall section, the advice found there probably applies to wings that are no longer stalled. In which case, it's expected that you'll return the wings to level flight with the ailerons.

In the spin section of your POH, I'm sure you won't find any mention of using ailerons to raise a stalled wing. In fact, you can easily accelerate spin entry by attempting to raise a stalled wing with the ailerons. It's more likely that your POH contains advice similar to what stall/spin guru Rich Stowell recommends in his book: P.A.R.E. The Emergency Spin Recovery Procedure. Without going into detail, .P.A.R.E. represents the flight control sequence for spin recovery: Power (off), Ailerons (neutral + flaps up), Rudder (full opposite - heavy) and Elevator (to reduce the angle of attack).
Best,
Rod

Dear Mr. Machado:
I’m a flight instructor and I’m a little confused about what to tell my students regarding the use of ailerons during stall recovery. One instructor at the flight school forbids his students to use any aileron to help lift a lowered wing during stall recovery. He suggests that it can result in a spin. What stall recovery technique would you recommend if a wing drops during a stall? Would this be different from the spin recovery technique you would also recommend?
Sincerely,
Jan

Greetings Jan:
Most of the general aviation airplanes we fly have wings designed so a stall progresses from the wing root to the wing tip. This is a common characteristic of rectangular and tapered wings. Once the airplane stalls, the ailerons still have some effectiveness and can be used to help raise a wing. There’s nothing wrong with using a little aileron to raise a lowered wing as long as you do so with the coordinated use of rudder to maintain directional control. You just don’t want to be too aggressive with aileron usage during stall recovery. For most airplanes, the correct stall recovery technique is to apply forward elevator pressure to decrease the angle of attack, apply full power (if “full” power is appropriate for your aircraft) and use aileron and rudder in coordination to maintain directional control.

I recall one of my students who failed to release elevator back pressure during stall recovery. This particular airplane settled into a deep mush and a wing lowered about 10 degrees. Forgetting the proper recovery technique, she promptly twisted and turned the ailerons (which were completely ineffective in this aggravated stall) in an attempt to raise the lowered wing. Thinking that I had somehow disconnected her flight controls, she reached over and grabbed my flight controls. The point here is that she wouldn’t have had this problem if she had decreased the angle of attack first. If I recall correctly, I believe I looked over and said, “Barbara, flight controls are not something pilots share.”

Remember, we’re speaking about stall recovery here, not spin recovery, which has a slightly different recovery technique. To recover from a spin in most airplanes, you’d reduce power to idle, neutralize the ailerons, apply rudder to stop the rotation then apply forward elevator pressure to break the stall.

Dear Mr. Machado:
I am now at the point in my flight training where I need to work on putting the final polish on my maneuvers before I take the final checkride in order to become a private pilot.

I know the steps or procedure in power-on stalls in a bank. I know them better than my social security number. Nevertheless, if I’m in a power-on stall and one wing begins to drop, I’ve picked up the bad habit of wanting to use aileron instead of rudder to lift the stalled wing. I am getting very frustrated with myself over this.

Do you have any suggestions on how I can get over this habit?
Sincerely,
Ms. Frustrated

Greetings Ms. Frustrated:
When demonstrating stalls, place your left hand over the center of the control wheel―the point where the wheel meets the control shaft. Let your fingers droop down as if you’re holding the top of a big softball (there is no 10:00 and 2:00 o’clock rule for holding the control yoke in aviation, which is especially good since the yoke doesn’t have a 10:00 and 2:00 o’clock position). This allows you full use of the elevator control but helps diminish your attempt at applying aileron to any significant degree during a stall. Of course, this technique only masks the symptoms of the habit. But at least it’s a good place to begin solving the problem.

The only practical way to deal with the habit is to practice the proper procedure until the wrong one disappears. Either practice in the airplane or practice it mentally. This is called covert rehearsal and it’s an excellent way to weed out bad flying habits. Sit in a chair, relax, close your eyes and mentally review the stall recovery procedures while acting them out with hand and foot movements. Of course, if someone walks in and sees foam, boards, and upholstery scattered about the living room, they’ll know you used aileron during your imaginary practice.

Hi Rod:
Any suggestions on getting through power-on stalls? I think the nose high attitude is the hardest to get over. Also, do you have any suggestions on getting my head used to small g loads during entry to the departure stall?
Thanks,
Jim

Greetings John:
In real life, an actual departure stall doesn’t have anywhere near the attitude that some pilots may experience during training. That’s because real-to-life departure stalls are most often entered while the airplane was operating in the region of reversed command (behind the power curve). For instance, a pilot departing an airport with a high density altitude might lift off prematurely and attempt to climb out of ground effect with insufficient speed. The result? A departure stall at a relatively nose-low attitude. The same might be said of a pilot who attempts an abrupt a go around on final after letting his airspeed decay. Therefore, it’s often best to simulate a departure stall as it’s accidentally (and unfortunately) done in real life. Here’s how to do it.

After making the required clearing turns, reduce power and slow the airplane to close to the power-off stall speed. Then apply climb power and raise the nose in preparation to stall. This would simulate a more realistic attitude and entry for the departure stall. You should feel no noticeable increase in g force during the entry to a departure stall if you do it correctly. In other words, you shouldn’t be half way through a loop when the airplane stalls during departure stall practice. If you enter the stall as I suggest, a gradual increase in back pressure will slide the airplane further behind the power curve and result in a departure stall at a more nose-low (more realistic) attitude.

Sir:
I am taking part in Project Mentor. My "protégé" (for lack of a better word) is pre-solo right now and he sent me a video of his last training flight and it has me EXTREMELY concerned. I AM NOT A CFI!!

First they were on an instrument flight plan (not sure about the legality of having the video camera going), They had filed IFR to get to VMC on top to practice maneuvers. Here is what I saw and heard.

They were doing power-off stalls in a C-172. The nose would break, full power applied then a nose high attitude, the stall horn began to sound again and it STAYED on for two full minutes while they climbed, then leveled off. I asked him and he told me that he was being taught to regain altitude immediately and not to worry about the horn.

I believe you can see my concern. Is this just another method of teaching that I have not come across or is there a REAL problem with what his CFI is teaching?

He had previously told me that he was the first student for his CFI (had 300 TT) when he began lessons.

If there is a problem, any advice on how to handle it would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Stan

Greetings Stan:
There's nothing wrong with a CFI taking a student on top for practice maneuvers. Personally, I think all students should have some experience with what a cloud looks like from the inside. Also, there's nothing illegal about using a video camera in an airplane as long as the PIC determines that it will not interfere with the instruments. As you’ve discovered it is an excellent tool for extending and critiquing the lesson.

There's also nothing wrong with recovering from a stall and entering a climb. This is a very reasonable way to teach stall recovery. It's not, however, a good nor acceptable nor even a recognized practice to recover from a stall and enter a climb with the stall horn active. Stall horns typically activate 5-7 mph above stall speed. Trying to climb with the stall horn active most certainly places the airplane in the region of reversed command (behind the power curve). In this condition, the climb is marginalized (if the airplane will climb at all), and the airplane is too close to the power-on stall speed. Instead, after the stall, the airplane should be placed in the attitude that provides the best rate of climb. This speed (Vy) allows the greatest upward deflection on the VSI. As I see it, this CFI isn't providing your mentee with a good, industry-accepted representation of how to recover from a stall.

My advice? Show him this letter. If he's a good man, and one who really wants to learn, then he'll consider using a more reasonable and acceptable stall recovery technique. If not, then he'll dismiss you and your concerns. If so, then the student you are mentoring should consider looking for a new CFI. My thought is that if this fellow is confident enough to let your mentee videotape his lesson, then he probably has a good self-concept and will be willing to reconsider his stall recovery technique. I'm betting on the CFI to do the right thing.